I'll post about a conworld I started yesterday. I'll only post bits at a time. You can comment or ask questions, and I'll respond.
Despite the topic title, I won't be conlanging in this world yet. The name, Kćeća Ora, came to me concurrent with the world itself. Though it's not part of any language, I know it means "patchwork world." Use Polish pronunciation for it.
Sometimes, I'll need to refer to reality. I'll use the word "Briah" instead saying of "our universe" or "the real world" repeatedly because it's shorter and I like it.
The Fundamental Nature of Kćeća Ora
Imagine a flexible sheet of fabric that is 100% opaque. Now imagine there is a light shining behind it. Normally, you can't see this light because of the fabric. But imagine a pin-sized hole is poked in the sheet. Then, the light would shine through. This is a metaphor for the fundamental nature of Kćeća Ora.
The fabric is Space itself. There's no such thing as "nothing" in Kćeća Ora; Space itself is a physical thing.
The light is one of numerous "Fields" which overlay all of reality. They can interact with Space, but not with each other.
The pinhole is a one-dimensional object called a "String." All matter in Kćeća Ora is composed of Strings. Their single dimension is vibration. The frequency at which a String vibrates determines which Field the String lets "shine through the fabric."
To use Briah as an example, imagine there was no such thing as "an electron;" that what appears to be a discrete particle is really just a pinhole in reality, caused by a vibrating String, which lets a background "electron light" shine through at that point.
The metaphor is imperfect, because while a pinhole in a sheet of fabric is unmoving, Strings move freely through Space in Kćeća Ora.
For easy communication, I'll refer to Strings which vibrate in tune with a given Field as "X Strings," where X is the name of the Field. Keep in mind this is a simplification; there are no discrete "particles" in Kćeća Ora, they're actually disturbances in a Field.
Physical Matter in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, all physical matter consists of molecules which consists of atoms which consist of electrons, which are fundamental, and protons, which are not. Protons consist of triplet combinations of up and down quarks held together by gluons, both of which are fundamental. Electrons are bound to protons by the exchange of virtual particles. Indeed, all forces in Briah operate by the exchange of particles; even gravity.
In Kćeća Ora, which contains no "particles," physical matter is comprised of combinations of three types of Strings which we'll individually call Red, Green and Blue and collectively call RGB Strings.
Single RGB Strings are attracted to one another. I'll explain their attraction with another metaphor. Imagine a wooden shelf which is slightly off-level. If you set a glass on the shelf, the glass won't slide, because the incline isn't steep enough. However, if you vibrate the shelf, the glass will begin to slide.
The shelf is Space.
The glass is a String.
The vibration of the shelf is the vibration of another String.
Strings vibrate Space around them. The distance out to which these spatial vibrations, which we'll call Echoes, reach varies from String to String. I'll elaborate later. For now, know that when a String enters the Echo of another String, it alters the way each of them move.
Strings with very different frequencies of vibration attract one another like the glass sliding on the vibrating shelf.
Strings with very similar frequencies repel one another. No equivalent in the metaphor.
Strings with the exact same vibration (i.e. two Red Strings) have no affect on one another.
RGB strings combine to form larger structures in Kćeća Ora similarly to the way quarks and electrons combine to form atoms in Briah. However, whereas in Briah, quarks form protons and neutrons which form nuclei which combine with electrons to form atoms which combine to form molecules, in Kćeća Ora, it's just RGB Strings, all the way up and down.
Odd-numbered groupings of RGB Strings (including single Strings) are attracted to one another, but repulsed by even-numbered groupings. The converse is true. This is because Red Strings, Green Strings and Blue Strings vibrations differ by 1/3 from each other; they're sufficiently different to allow attraction. The Echo of a group of Strings, however, is the sum total of the vibrations of its constituent Strings. Thus, odd-numbered groupings of RGB Strings are similar in vibration to even-numbered groupings, and so repulse one another. Odd-numbered groupings are different in vibration from one another, however, so they attract. The converse is true.
Based on the above, you may suspect that all RGB Strings in Kćeća Ora would, at the beginning of the universe, simply coalesce in allowable configurations until there were two gigantic lumps of matter, and nothing else. That would be astute. The reason this doesn't happen (Kćeća Ora has landscapes comparable to those found on Earth) is the interaction between RGB Strings and Strings of another Field.
This post is long. I'll describe that Field tomorrow.
Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
This looks more like physics theories than conworlding to me...
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
If it's a conworld "from the beginning," it would presumably start from fundamentals, i.e. physical laws.Astraios wrote:This looks more like physics theories than conworlding to me...
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Nah, that's for softcore amateurs. REAL conlangers start with making conmetaphysics, which in turn requires conlogic, and concosmology; you need to accurately and originally describe your conbigbang and your underlying conbrane metastructural multiverse. For that, however, world-specific rules of conlogic need to be worked out, since its pretty ethnocentric and unimaginative to have things like identity, causality, and temporal monodirectionality.Maharba wrote:If it's a conworld "from the beginning," it would presumably start from fundamentals, i.e. physical laws.Astraios wrote:This looks more like physics theories than conworlding to me...
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Also since said laws are human constructions, the whole exercise becomes highly circular... or spiral... or something.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Astraios, Maharba is correct.
Fundamental Chemistry in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, photons are ubiquitous. You can see because billions of photons surround you whenever there's a source of light. Even empty space is filled with photons; this is how we see stars.
In Kćeća Ora, there are no photons. There is something with photon-like ubiquity, though: Clear Strings. Space itself constantly generates millions of Clear Strings per cubic meter. This is due to the Clear Field being "closest" to the Field that is Space. The Clear Field is also highly energetic and unstable. It's erratic nature and "proximity" to Space cause this constant String generation. Imagine two flags in the wind constantly bumping into one another. At each point of contact, a Clear String is generated.
Clear Strings travel at a fixed speed and last a fixed, finite amount of time before annihilating. The rate of annihilation exactly equals the rate of generation. As such, one can conceptualize Clear Strings as being a stable, stationary "atmosphere" that pervades Kćeća Ora, even though in reality they are continuously created, move, and are destroyed.
Clear Strings only interact with RGB Strings, passing through all other matter. That interaction is inhibition. RGB Strings attraction to one another isn't strong enough to overcome the repulsion of the constant bombardment of Clear Strings. For this reason, under most circumstances, RGB Strings do not interact with one another. They can only combine to form complex groupings in a relative void of Clear Strings.
Numerous physical phenomenon are capable of voiding Clear Strings from an area of Space. The most common is heat. Clear Strings tend away from areas of intense heat. As in Briah, in Kćeća Ora, "heat" is merely a measure of the microscopic motion of physical material. Note this is not the same thing as the vibration of Strings, just as in Briah, the motion of an electron around a proton is different from the motion of the atom itself, which is described as heat.
Besides heat, Clear Strings can be voided by intense pressure, extreme velocity and by the physical contact of certain materials. Thus, chemistry in Kćeća Ora is very similar to chemistry in Briah: substances tend not to spontaneously change. If you add heat, pressure, or combine certain substances, you can force them to change.
Tomorrow, I'll say how sight works in Kćeća Ora.
Fundamental Chemistry in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, photons are ubiquitous. You can see because billions of photons surround you whenever there's a source of light. Even empty space is filled with photons; this is how we see stars.
In Kćeća Ora, there are no photons. There is something with photon-like ubiquity, though: Clear Strings. Space itself constantly generates millions of Clear Strings per cubic meter. This is due to the Clear Field being "closest" to the Field that is Space. The Clear Field is also highly energetic and unstable. It's erratic nature and "proximity" to Space cause this constant String generation. Imagine two flags in the wind constantly bumping into one another. At each point of contact, a Clear String is generated.
Clear Strings travel at a fixed speed and last a fixed, finite amount of time before annihilating. The rate of annihilation exactly equals the rate of generation. As such, one can conceptualize Clear Strings as being a stable, stationary "atmosphere" that pervades Kćeća Ora, even though in reality they are continuously created, move, and are destroyed.
Clear Strings only interact with RGB Strings, passing through all other matter. That interaction is inhibition. RGB Strings attraction to one another isn't strong enough to overcome the repulsion of the constant bombardment of Clear Strings. For this reason, under most circumstances, RGB Strings do not interact with one another. They can only combine to form complex groupings in a relative void of Clear Strings.
Numerous physical phenomenon are capable of voiding Clear Strings from an area of Space. The most common is heat. Clear Strings tend away from areas of intense heat. As in Briah, in Kćeća Ora, "heat" is merely a measure of the microscopic motion of physical material. Note this is not the same thing as the vibration of Strings, just as in Briah, the motion of an electron around a proton is different from the motion of the atom itself, which is described as heat.
Besides heat, Clear Strings can be voided by intense pressure, extreme velocity and by the physical contact of certain materials. Thus, chemistry in Kćeća Ora is very similar to chemistry in Briah: substances tend not to spontaneously change. If you add heat, pressure, or combine certain substances, you can force them to change.
Tomorrow, I'll say how sight works in Kćeća Ora.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Sight in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, you can see things because you have eyes which are capable of absorbing photons and translating them into brain signals which you subjectively interpret as color and brightness.
In Kćeća Ora, there are no photons. Living creatures have an analogue of sight, though. I'll refer to it as sight for simplicity, but it works differently.
All matter in Kćeća Ora vibrates Space around it. On the microscopic scale of individual Strings, this vibration, or Echo, doesn't reach very far. The Echo of a grouping of Strings is the sum total of the Echo of each individual String. Additionally, the size of an Echo scales exponentially with the size of of the grouping.
Creatures in Kćeća Ora evolve the ability to perceive these vibrations. The subjective experience of this sense, which humans lack, is impossible for a human to describe. Since it's analoguous to sight, I'll use color (vibration frequency) and brightness (vibration intensity).
There is an additional aspect to the subjective experience of sight to sighted creatures in Kćeća Ora with no analogy in Briah sight. I'll call it texture. Two objects in Kćeća Ora can have the same color and brightness, but "look" different because of the physical effect of the Echo on a creature. It's similar to the way one can physically feel a sound in Briah.
Predatory species in Kćeća Ora, which includes most intelligent species, tend to evolve organs for perceiving Echoes analoguous to eyes in Briah. Prey species tend to evolve Echo-sensitive cuticles, such as skin. Eyes allow clearer, focused, binocular vision conducive to hunting. Echo-sensitive skin allows an omnidirectional sense of sight, conducive to avoiding predators, but is less acute.
Note in Briah, a photon changes when it bounces off an object. We perceive these changes as color. Because these changes are physical, there are primary colors. In Kćeća Ora, an objects Echo doesn't change unless the object itself changes. Thus, there are no primary colors. Every color a creature in Kćeća Ora perceives is unique. This would be taxing to attempt to represent accurately. In the future, I'll simplify things by arbitrarily assigning familiar colors to familiar objects.
Darkness in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, darkness is not physical. Light is physical, in the form of photons. Darkness is the absence of light.
In Kćeća Ora, there are no photons so there is no light nor darkness, but there is an analogue. I'll call it the Dark Field. Dark Strings absorb Echoes in Space. Since sight is based on the interpretation of Echoes, when enough Dark Strings gather, sight is disrupted. The perception of this phenomenon is indescribable to creatures who can't subjectively experience it. For simplicity, I'll say Dark Strings appear black.
RGB Strings are much smaller than Dark Strings. Their Echoes aren't absorbed. Thus, Dark Strings only prevent sight, not chemistry. Dark Strings are so large in comparison to RGB Strings that the former cannot bypass the latter. You could bottle darkness.
When Dark Strings gather, they form elastic clouds when tend to grip physical matter and form a film across Space, similarly to how bubble soap will form a film across a wire circle, but three-dimensional instead of two-dimensional. This mesh tends to move perpendicular to "down," spreading as high and low as its density allows. If you've seen a horror movie where darkness creeps down a hallway, you can easily envision a cloud of Dark Strings advancing through Space.
Dark Strings are self-attracting and energetic. The more Dark Strings that gather, the more attraction and the more energy. When enough gather, an energetic reaction takes place wherein the individual Dark Strings fly away from each other, dissipating. Eventually, typically elsewhere, the Strings will reconvene and form a cloud again, until it becomes too dense and dissipates again.
From the above information, you can imagine a cycle similar to Earth's day-night cycle. Normally, Dark String density is low enough that sight is not impeded. Eventually, a cloud will form that blocks sight. It will become larger and denser until it dissipates, to coalesce again in the future. Respectively, I'll call these periods day, night and dawn.
Because Dark Strings are more similar in pattern to the Briah concept of weather than of light and darkness, day, night and dawn in Kćeća Ora are not fixed. In an average area, the cycle may complete regularly, giving an average "day." In some areas, Dark Strings might be rare. In others, they might be very common or ubiquitous.
Tomorrow, I'll post about dimensions of Space and "gravity."
In Briah, you can see things because you have eyes which are capable of absorbing photons and translating them into brain signals which you subjectively interpret as color and brightness.
In Kćeća Ora, there are no photons. Living creatures have an analogue of sight, though. I'll refer to it as sight for simplicity, but it works differently.
All matter in Kćeća Ora vibrates Space around it. On the microscopic scale of individual Strings, this vibration, or Echo, doesn't reach very far. The Echo of a grouping of Strings is the sum total of the Echo of each individual String. Additionally, the size of an Echo scales exponentially with the size of of the grouping.
Creatures in Kćeća Ora evolve the ability to perceive these vibrations. The subjective experience of this sense, which humans lack, is impossible for a human to describe. Since it's analoguous to sight, I'll use color (vibration frequency) and brightness (vibration intensity).
There is an additional aspect to the subjective experience of sight to sighted creatures in Kćeća Ora with no analogy in Briah sight. I'll call it texture. Two objects in Kćeća Ora can have the same color and brightness, but "look" different because of the physical effect of the Echo on a creature. It's similar to the way one can physically feel a sound in Briah.
Predatory species in Kćeća Ora, which includes most intelligent species, tend to evolve organs for perceiving Echoes analoguous to eyes in Briah. Prey species tend to evolve Echo-sensitive cuticles, such as skin. Eyes allow clearer, focused, binocular vision conducive to hunting. Echo-sensitive skin allows an omnidirectional sense of sight, conducive to avoiding predators, but is less acute.
Note in Briah, a photon changes when it bounces off an object. We perceive these changes as color. Because these changes are physical, there are primary colors. In Kćeća Ora, an objects Echo doesn't change unless the object itself changes. Thus, there are no primary colors. Every color a creature in Kćeća Ora perceives is unique. This would be taxing to attempt to represent accurately. In the future, I'll simplify things by arbitrarily assigning familiar colors to familiar objects.
Darkness in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, darkness is not physical. Light is physical, in the form of photons. Darkness is the absence of light.
In Kćeća Ora, there are no photons so there is no light nor darkness, but there is an analogue. I'll call it the Dark Field. Dark Strings absorb Echoes in Space. Since sight is based on the interpretation of Echoes, when enough Dark Strings gather, sight is disrupted. The perception of this phenomenon is indescribable to creatures who can't subjectively experience it. For simplicity, I'll say Dark Strings appear black.
RGB Strings are much smaller than Dark Strings. Their Echoes aren't absorbed. Thus, Dark Strings only prevent sight, not chemistry. Dark Strings are so large in comparison to RGB Strings that the former cannot bypass the latter. You could bottle darkness.
When Dark Strings gather, they form elastic clouds when tend to grip physical matter and form a film across Space, similarly to how bubble soap will form a film across a wire circle, but three-dimensional instead of two-dimensional. This mesh tends to move perpendicular to "down," spreading as high and low as its density allows. If you've seen a horror movie where darkness creeps down a hallway, you can easily envision a cloud of Dark Strings advancing through Space.
Dark Strings are self-attracting and energetic. The more Dark Strings that gather, the more attraction and the more energy. When enough gather, an energetic reaction takes place wherein the individual Dark Strings fly away from each other, dissipating. Eventually, typically elsewhere, the Strings will reconvene and form a cloud again, until it becomes too dense and dissipates again.
From the above information, you can imagine a cycle similar to Earth's day-night cycle. Normally, Dark String density is low enough that sight is not impeded. Eventually, a cloud will form that blocks sight. It will become larger and denser until it dissipates, to coalesce again in the future. Respectively, I'll call these periods day, night and dawn.
Because Dark Strings are more similar in pattern to the Briah concept of weather than of light and darkness, day, night and dawn in Kćeća Ora are not fixed. In an average area, the cycle may complete regularly, giving an average "day." In some areas, Dark Strings might be rare. In others, they might be very common or ubiquitous.
Tomorrow, I'll post about dimensions of Space and "gravity."
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
This is fascinating; I can't believe you thought this all up in a single day.
Are there galaxies, stars, and solar systems floating around in space in Kćeća Ora, as there are in Briah? If not, what are the large structures of the universe?
What sort of physical surface or medium does the inhabited world occur on or in?
Also, sounds like you've done at least a bit of conbiology--looking forward to hearing about that.
Keep it coming.
Are there galaxies, stars, and solar systems floating around in space in Kćeća Ora, as there are in Briah? If not, what are the large structures of the universe?
What sort of physical surface or medium does the inhabited world occur on or in?
Also, sounds like you've done at least a bit of conbiology--looking forward to hearing about that.
Keep it coming.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
By what medium do these vibrations travel, and how do they bounce off surfaces? cause if your guys or animals directly detect the vibrations of matter then it's not sight at all, its more like radar. the defining trait of sight is opacity of percieved objects and the whole shadow and light thingie. Echoes sound more like smell, or perhaps infrarred radiation and the way in which you can see heat with IR goggles and stuff, so it works dramatically different from sight. Also, how transparent is "air" to these Echoes, and how transparent are things that echo to the echo of other things, will determine what the world looks like to your creatures.
so far, I imagine no shadows, everything being more or less transparent, and colour being more or less a function of what something is made of, so you're actually seeing substances: it isn't red, it's steely. Finally, no reflections, and a VERY limited FOV... more limited than our light, for instance, which can travel thousands of kilometers with no significant alteration.
some other questions that determine how sight-like your system is [which, by my account, looks like not very]... do echoes echo? do echoes bounce off surfaces like our waves?and if so, what substances bounce more echo? finally, do everything echoes/shines/vibrates with the same intensity? if not, especially loud/shiny substances will be like beacons of light and especially reflective substances will reflect that light, or sound, or vibration, that echo. That would give place to a more light-like system of perception with reflection and shadows. Without like the sun or the sky or something being made of a very loud substance theeeeeeeeen its more like sonar or IR and not at all like sight.
A charming conworld you got there, man.
so far, I imagine no shadows, everything being more or less transparent, and colour being more or less a function of what something is made of, so you're actually seeing substances: it isn't red, it's steely. Finally, no reflections, and a VERY limited FOV... more limited than our light, for instance, which can travel thousands of kilometers with no significant alteration.
some other questions that determine how sight-like your system is [which, by my account, looks like not very]... do echoes echo? do echoes bounce off surfaces like our waves?and if so, what substances bounce more echo? finally, do everything echoes/shines/vibrates with the same intensity? if not, especially loud/shiny substances will be like beacons of light and especially reflective substances will reflect that light, or sound, or vibration, that echo. That would give place to a more light-like system of perception with reflection and shadows. Without like the sun or the sky or something being made of a very loud substance theeeeeeeeen its more like sonar or IR and not at all like sight.
A charming conworld you got there, man.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
cromulant, thank you for your kind words. I'll describe the large-scale structure of Kćeća Ora beginning with this post.
Torco, Echoes propagate through Space itself. In Briah, empty space is just that. In Kćeća Ora, there's no such thing as empty space. Space itself is physical. Echoes vibrate Space itself. Echoes do not bounce off anything, since they vibrate Space, rather than things within Space.
You are correct; sight in Kćeća Ora is not remotely like sight in Briah. It is more similar to radar, or hearing. I have arbitrarily chosen to analogize it to sight, to make Kćeća Ora easier to understand. For myself as much as anyone else.
You are also correct that there are no shadows. Shadows are a result of light, which is not present in Kćeća Ora. There is the afforementioned Darkness, however. You alre also correct that sighted creatures in Kćeća Ora "see substances" and that ones field of view is very limited in comparison to creatures in Briah.
Things are not, however, "transparent." A given point of Space can only be in one state at a time. Eyes in Kćeća Ora tend only to register the most recent state. Imagine a mountain on a flat plain. A sighted creature in Kćeća Ora could see it because it vibrates Space around it. Now imagine a large statue is placed in front of the mountain. The vibrations caused by the statue would "overwrite" the vibrations of the mountain directly behind it. Thus, the statue would block part of the creature's view of the mountain.
There are reflections in Kćeća Ora. Certain substances do not generate Echoes of their own, but reverberate the Echoes around them.
Substances do vary in the size and intensity of their Echoes. This is directly based upon their chemcial composition and density.
Thank you for the compliment.
Dimensions and "Gravity" in Kćeća Ora
Briah has at least four dimensions; three spatial and one temporal. The three spatial dimensions are infinite and directionless. The temporal dimension is finite and has direction, which we call "the flow of time," which began with the Big Bang and will end at some finite point in the future.
Because space in Briah has no direction, there is no objective "down." The phenomenon of "down" is the result of gravity, which is the exchange of virtual particles called gravitons between most forms of matter. The greater the density of an object, the greater its emission of gravitons and the stronger its gravity.
Space in Kćeća Ora is six-dimensional. In Briah, we picture the universe like this. In Kćeća Ora, Space is more like this. While all material in Kćeća Ora has six spatial dimensions, some creatures only experience three, four or five.
Imagine a creature capable of perceiving only two-dimensions, living on a piece of paper. If you, a creature capable of perceiving three dimensions, placed your finger on the paper, the "two-dimensional creature" would experience this as the appearance of an object as if from nowhere. You could lift your finger and place it elsewhere, and the "two-dimensional creature" would experience it as teleportation.
Similarly, in Kćeća Ora, a creature only capable of perceiving three-dimensions could be baffled if a creature capable of perceiving more dimensions were to "press itself against the paper." It would seem to suddenly appear. It could then "take its finger off the paper" and place it elsewhere, appearing to teleport.
Space in Kćeća Ora has direction. This is experienced similarly to gravity, with objects following the contours of Space along a path of least resistance to rest in an area of lowest energy. Imagine a bowl. Imagine you drop a ball inside. It will roll down and eventually come to rest at the lowest part of the bowl. In Briah, you're held to the Earth by the exchange of gravitons. In Kćeća Ora, creatures are held to the ground because they're attempting to fall through Space, but the ground is blocking their path. Thus, there is an objective "down" in Kćeća Ora. However, the direction of "down" varies from place to place.
Space in Kćeća Ora is finite, but boundless. This means that while you can never reach an "end" of Space, neither does it extend forever. Imagine the surface of the Earth. You can travel in any direction as far as you like and never come to an "end of the Earth." This metaphor is imperfect, because you can travel off Earth and into space, whereas you cannot travel "off" Kćeća Ora. There's no such thing as "outside the universe." Kćeća Ora is the universe.
Tomorrow I'll talk about time. Together with space, "gravity" and dimensions, I'll be able to begin to describe the macroscopic structure of Kćeća Ora.
Torco, Echoes propagate through Space itself. In Briah, empty space is just that. In Kćeća Ora, there's no such thing as empty space. Space itself is physical. Echoes vibrate Space itself. Echoes do not bounce off anything, since they vibrate Space, rather than things within Space.
You are correct; sight in Kćeća Ora is not remotely like sight in Briah. It is more similar to radar, or hearing. I have arbitrarily chosen to analogize it to sight, to make Kćeća Ora easier to understand. For myself as much as anyone else.
You are also correct that there are no shadows. Shadows are a result of light, which is not present in Kćeća Ora. There is the afforementioned Darkness, however. You alre also correct that sighted creatures in Kćeća Ora "see substances" and that ones field of view is very limited in comparison to creatures in Briah.
Things are not, however, "transparent." A given point of Space can only be in one state at a time. Eyes in Kćeća Ora tend only to register the most recent state. Imagine a mountain on a flat plain. A sighted creature in Kćeća Ora could see it because it vibrates Space around it. Now imagine a large statue is placed in front of the mountain. The vibrations caused by the statue would "overwrite" the vibrations of the mountain directly behind it. Thus, the statue would block part of the creature's view of the mountain.
There are reflections in Kćeća Ora. Certain substances do not generate Echoes of their own, but reverberate the Echoes around them.
Substances do vary in the size and intensity of their Echoes. This is directly based upon their chemcial composition and density.
Thank you for the compliment.
Dimensions and "Gravity" in Kćeća Ora
Briah has at least four dimensions; three spatial and one temporal. The three spatial dimensions are infinite and directionless. The temporal dimension is finite and has direction, which we call "the flow of time," which began with the Big Bang and will end at some finite point in the future.
Because space in Briah has no direction, there is no objective "down." The phenomenon of "down" is the result of gravity, which is the exchange of virtual particles called gravitons between most forms of matter. The greater the density of an object, the greater its emission of gravitons and the stronger its gravity.
Space in Kćeća Ora is six-dimensional. In Briah, we picture the universe like this. In Kćeća Ora, Space is more like this. While all material in Kćeća Ora has six spatial dimensions, some creatures only experience three, four or five.
Imagine a creature capable of perceiving only two-dimensions, living on a piece of paper. If you, a creature capable of perceiving three dimensions, placed your finger on the paper, the "two-dimensional creature" would experience this as the appearance of an object as if from nowhere. You could lift your finger and place it elsewhere, and the "two-dimensional creature" would experience it as teleportation.
Similarly, in Kćeća Ora, a creature only capable of perceiving three-dimensions could be baffled if a creature capable of perceiving more dimensions were to "press itself against the paper." It would seem to suddenly appear. It could then "take its finger off the paper" and place it elsewhere, appearing to teleport.
Space in Kćeća Ora has direction. This is experienced similarly to gravity, with objects following the contours of Space along a path of least resistance to rest in an area of lowest energy. Imagine a bowl. Imagine you drop a ball inside. It will roll down and eventually come to rest at the lowest part of the bowl. In Briah, you're held to the Earth by the exchange of gravitons. In Kćeća Ora, creatures are held to the ground because they're attempting to fall through Space, but the ground is blocking their path. Thus, there is an objective "down" in Kćeća Ora. However, the direction of "down" varies from place to place.
Space in Kćeća Ora is finite, but boundless. This means that while you can never reach an "end" of Space, neither does it extend forever. Imagine the surface of the Earth. You can travel in any direction as far as you like and never come to an "end of the Earth." This metaphor is imperfect, because you can travel off Earth and into space, whereas you cannot travel "off" Kćeća Ora. There's no such thing as "outside the universe." Kćeća Ora is the universe.
Tomorrow I'll talk about time. Together with space, "gravity" and dimensions, I'll be able to begin to describe the macroscopic structure of Kćeća Ora.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
wouldn't they simply retain the lateral line from their days as fish? or have even more lateral lines?Observer wrote:Sight in Kćeća OraAll matter in Kćeća Ora vibrates Space around it. On the microscopic scale of individual Strings, this vibration, or Echo, doesn't reach very far. The Echo of a grouping of Strings is the sum total of the Echo of each individual String. Additionally, the size of an Echo scales exponentially with the size of of the grouping.
Creatures in Kćeća Ora evolve the ability to perceive these vibrations. The subjective experience of this sense, which humans lack, is impossible for a human to describe. Since it's analoguous to sight, I'll use color (vibration frequency) and brightness (vibration intensity).
There is an additional aspect to the subjective experience of sight to sighted creatures in Kćeća Ora with no analogy in Briah sight. I'll call it texture. Two objects in Kćeća Ora can have the same color and brightness, but "look" different because of the physical effect of the Echo on a creature. It's similar to the way one can physically feel a sound in Briah.
Predatory species in Kćeća Ora, which includes most intelligent species, tend to evolve organs for perceiving Echoes analoguous to eyes in Briah. Prey species tend to evolve Echo-sensitive cuticles, such as skin. Eyes allow clearer, focused, binocular vision conducive to hunting. Echo-sensitive skin allows an omnidirectional sense of sight, conducive to avoiding predators, but is less acute.
(though "texture" sounds similar to what's described with achromatics (such as in Island of the Color Blind))
MadBrain is a genius.
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Jar Jar Binks
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Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Rodlox wrote:wouldn't they simply retain the lateral line from their days as fish? or have even more lateral lines?
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Rodlox, "lateral lines" and "fish" are Earth concepts. Kćeća Ora is a separate universe, with no connections.
Jar Jar Binks, I don't understand your post. I played the notes; they don't sound familiar.
Time in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, time is a physical dimensional, equal to the three dimensions of space. It is unidirectional and constant.
In Kćeća Ora, there is no such thing as time. Things appear, change and disappear. This is subjectively experienced as "time," but has no component in physical reality.
Various forms of matter experience change and growth differently. Traveling through Space, you may encounter beings whose subjective experience of time flows in the opposite direction as yours. To say they experience time "backwards" would be incorrect, however. To them, they would experience time normally, and you would experience it backwards. The two of you might encounter a third being, whose perception of time is orthogonal to both of yours. WIth no physical time, the experience is entirely subjective and no experience is more or less correct than any other.
The Patchwork World
Kćeća Ora is called so because Space can and does overlap itself. Two discrete regions of Space can occupy the same "space." Which you experience would depend on which direction you came from.
Imagine travelling down a tunnel, deep underground, currently covered in Darkness. While travelling from one end to the other, at a certain point, you notice a lack of Darkness. You can even see grass, and smell water. As you keep walking, you eventually find yourself on an island. You were deep underground, so you know you didn't come out of a proper cave exit. Rather, you crossed between discrete regions of Space which may be physically separated by millions of miles.
Some of these passages are one-way. When you first emerge on the island, you might look back and still see the Darkness of the cave, but if you move too far from the overlap, it disappears, like a mirage. If you go back to that point on the island, you wouldn't see the cave anymore.
If you had been travelling the opposite direction down that cave, starting at the other side, you may never have encountered this phenomenon.
Large-Scale Kćeća Ora
In Briah, space is infinite. If you could travel faster than light, you could travel away from all the matter of the universe, eventually seeing it as a distant point of light. You could go on forever. Briah can be thought of as a collection of particles existing within an infinite, empty space.
In Kćeća Ora, there is no empty space. Kćeća Ora doesn't exist within any framework; there's no such thing as "outside of Space." But while not infinite, Kćeća Ora is not bounded. You could never come to the "edge of Space." You can travel forever in any direction and never leave Space behind.
What does Kćeća Ora look like?
There are no stars in Kćeća Ora.
There are no planets.
No satellites, no meteors, no solar systems, no galaxies, no superclusters.
Within the knotted, six-dimensional folds of the universe, landscapes exist without parent structures. The afforementioned island sits on a sea which does not sit on a planet; it sits in its own region of Space. If you travelled far enough toward the horizon, you would eventually find yourself somewhere else, or back where you started. The same applies if you travelled straight up, or dug down.
Picture the Calabi-Yau manfold I linked to again. Instead of imagining that that structure contains empty space filled with stars and planets, imagine that that structure is Space itself. You could walk along it. Through a tunnel here, atop an island there.
Some regions of Space are large; larger than the surface area of Earth. Some are small; as small as houses. Some are connected to many other areas, some to few. Some may be isolated, some may have one-way entrances and no exits.
This is as far as that first day's insight took me. My future posts in this topic will include information I make up as I write them. They will be more sporadic. Probably not daily. Covering a disconnected array of topics as I come up with them. If you want to hear about something specific and ask, I'll probably focus on that.
Jar Jar Binks, I don't understand your post. I played the notes; they don't sound familiar.
Time in Kćeća Ora
In Briah, time is a physical dimensional, equal to the three dimensions of space. It is unidirectional and constant.
In Kćeća Ora, there is no such thing as time. Things appear, change and disappear. This is subjectively experienced as "time," but has no component in physical reality.
Various forms of matter experience change and growth differently. Traveling through Space, you may encounter beings whose subjective experience of time flows in the opposite direction as yours. To say they experience time "backwards" would be incorrect, however. To them, they would experience time normally, and you would experience it backwards. The two of you might encounter a third being, whose perception of time is orthogonal to both of yours. WIth no physical time, the experience is entirely subjective and no experience is more or less correct than any other.
The Patchwork World
Kćeća Ora is called so because Space can and does overlap itself. Two discrete regions of Space can occupy the same "space." Which you experience would depend on which direction you came from.
Imagine travelling down a tunnel, deep underground, currently covered in Darkness. While travelling from one end to the other, at a certain point, you notice a lack of Darkness. You can even see grass, and smell water. As you keep walking, you eventually find yourself on an island. You were deep underground, so you know you didn't come out of a proper cave exit. Rather, you crossed between discrete regions of Space which may be physically separated by millions of miles.
Some of these passages are one-way. When you first emerge on the island, you might look back and still see the Darkness of the cave, but if you move too far from the overlap, it disappears, like a mirage. If you go back to that point on the island, you wouldn't see the cave anymore.
If you had been travelling the opposite direction down that cave, starting at the other side, you may never have encountered this phenomenon.
Large-Scale Kćeća Ora
In Briah, space is infinite. If you could travel faster than light, you could travel away from all the matter of the universe, eventually seeing it as a distant point of light. You could go on forever. Briah can be thought of as a collection of particles existing within an infinite, empty space.
In Kćeća Ora, there is no empty space. Kćeća Ora doesn't exist within any framework; there's no such thing as "outside of Space." But while not infinite, Kćeća Ora is not bounded. You could never come to the "edge of Space." You can travel forever in any direction and never leave Space behind.
What does Kćeća Ora look like?
There are no stars in Kćeća Ora.
There are no planets.
No satellites, no meteors, no solar systems, no galaxies, no superclusters.
Within the knotted, six-dimensional folds of the universe, landscapes exist without parent structures. The afforementioned island sits on a sea which does not sit on a planet; it sits in its own region of Space. If you travelled far enough toward the horizon, you would eventually find yourself somewhere else, or back where you started. The same applies if you travelled straight up, or dug down.
Picture the Calabi-Yau manfold I linked to again. Instead of imagining that that structure contains empty space filled with stars and planets, imagine that that structure is Space itself. You could walk along it. Through a tunnel here, atop an island there.
Some regions of Space are large; larger than the surface area of Earth. Some are small; as small as houses. Some are connected to many other areas, some to few. Some may be isolated, some may have one-way entrances and no exits.
This is as far as that first day's insight took me. My future posts in this topic will include information I make up as I write them. They will be more sporadic. Probably not daily. Covering a disconnected array of topics as I come up with them. If you want to hear about something specific and ask, I'll probably focus on that.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
I find it strange that you so casually dismiss concepts and analogies that our brains can understand...and then you say "Imagine travelling down a tunnel, deep underground, currently covered in Darkness." surely things like darkness would have no meaning to your sightless soundsensitives.Observer wrote:Rodlox, "lateral lines" and "fish" are Earth concepts. Kćeća Ora is a separate universe, with no connections.
MadBrain is a genius.
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Jar Jar Binks
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Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
"retain[ing] the lateral line" "from their days as fish" assumes intelligent life must by necessity evolve from something describable as fish that has lateral lines. this is silly.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
given that he's still describing the underlying physics of the universe, we have no idea what sort of organisms have ever developed there, or if it even has water (i missed it if it said so)...my point was a feature we know exists in our universe - which we lost Ages and Eons ago - would have been retained if anything like it had ever evolved in any sort of organisms there.Jar Jar Binks wrote:"retain[ing] the lateral line" "from their days as fish" assumes intelligent life must by necessity evolve from something describable as fish that has lateral lines. this is silly.
MadBrain is a genius.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Rodlox, I didn't realize you were making an analogy. When you said, "wouldn't they simply retain the lateral line from their days as fish?" I interpreted that as your implying that sighted creatures in Kćeća Ora were necessarily evolved from fish.
You are correct that "darkness" would have no meaning in a world without light, such as Kćeća Ora. I was speaking of Dark Strings specifically, hence my use of capitalization.
The Noosphere and Three Lifetypes
In Briah, consciousness is a physical phenomenon; the result of electrochemical processes within the brains of certain organisms.
In Kćeća Ora, consciousness is equally physical, but the result of a Consciousness Field.
In Briah, there is no fundamental difference between organic and non-organic matter, nor between types of organic matter. The carbon in a gazelle is no different than the carbon in you, and neither is different from the carbon in a rock.
In Kćeća Ora, organic matter is not only distinct from inorganic matter, but there are three fundamental types of organic matter; Mindless, Allmind and Onemind.
Mindless life cannot sustain consciousness. Using Earth examples, bacteria, fungi and plants would be Mindless life.
Imagine a pervasive "atmosphere" of Consciousness Strings, which I'll call the Noosphere, because the analogy is apt. These Strings store "thought data" the way that brain cells do in some of Briah's organisms. When an Allmind lifeform in Kćeća Ora reaches a certain developmental stage, certain organ structures within in absorb Consciousness Strings from the Noosphere. These Consciousness Strings remain relatively contained until death, when they're released back into the Noosphere.
While an individual Consciousness Strings can only store a tiny amount of data, these Strings do not lose information in the process of death; they only lose data when they are rewritten. Thus, sapient Allmind lifeforms in Kćeća Ora sometimes experience "past life" phenomena, in which an individual will claim to have lived before its current life, replete with memories of its past self.
This phenomenon is the result of the individual coincidentally absorbing a sufficiently large number of Consciousness Strings which previously occupied another Allmind lifeform, and which haven't occupied any other lifeform since then.
Onemind lifeforms generate their own Consciousness Strings at an early stage in their life cycle. These Strings annihiliate within a short timeframe after the death of the lifeform.
Onemind lifeforms are capable of what certain Briah psychologists would call self-actualization. Allmind lifeforms are not.
The majority of sapient life in Kćeća Ora is Allmind. For comparison, humans in Briah would be classified as Onemind. Despite this, most Onemind lifeforms in Kćeća Ora are dissimilar from humans. Kćeća Ora sapients which resemble humans are typically Allmind.
You are correct that "darkness" would have no meaning in a world without light, such as Kćeća Ora. I was speaking of Dark Strings specifically, hence my use of capitalization.
The Noosphere and Three Lifetypes
In Briah, consciousness is a physical phenomenon; the result of electrochemical processes within the brains of certain organisms.
In Kćeća Ora, consciousness is equally physical, but the result of a Consciousness Field.
In Briah, there is no fundamental difference between organic and non-organic matter, nor between types of organic matter. The carbon in a gazelle is no different than the carbon in you, and neither is different from the carbon in a rock.
In Kćeća Ora, organic matter is not only distinct from inorganic matter, but there are three fundamental types of organic matter; Mindless, Allmind and Onemind.
Mindless life cannot sustain consciousness. Using Earth examples, bacteria, fungi and plants would be Mindless life.
Imagine a pervasive "atmosphere" of Consciousness Strings, which I'll call the Noosphere, because the analogy is apt. These Strings store "thought data" the way that brain cells do in some of Briah's organisms. When an Allmind lifeform in Kćeća Ora reaches a certain developmental stage, certain organ structures within in absorb Consciousness Strings from the Noosphere. These Consciousness Strings remain relatively contained until death, when they're released back into the Noosphere.
While an individual Consciousness Strings can only store a tiny amount of data, these Strings do not lose information in the process of death; they only lose data when they are rewritten. Thus, sapient Allmind lifeforms in Kćeća Ora sometimes experience "past life" phenomena, in which an individual will claim to have lived before its current life, replete with memories of its past self.
This phenomenon is the result of the individual coincidentally absorbing a sufficiently large number of Consciousness Strings which previously occupied another Allmind lifeform, and which haven't occupied any other lifeform since then.
Onemind lifeforms generate their own Consciousness Strings at an early stage in their life cycle. These Strings annihiliate within a short timeframe after the death of the lifeform.
Onemind lifeforms are capable of what certain Briah psychologists would call self-actualization. Allmind lifeforms are not.
The majority of sapient life in Kćeća Ora is Allmind. For comparison, humans in Briah would be classified as Onemind. Despite this, most Onemind lifeforms in Kćeća Ora are dissimilar from humans. Kćeća Ora sapients which resemble humans are typically Allmind.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
States of Matter
Kćeća Ora has the same basic states of matter as Briah; solid, liquid and gas.
Dimensional Classification
Organisms in Kćeća Ora can be classified by how many dimensions they are capable of perceiving. Those that can only perceive three are called Tridimes. Four are Quadimes. Five are Quindimes.
No organisms in Kćeća Ora perceive only two or only one dimensions. None perceive all six. I misspoke about that last earlier. This is correct.
The "Atmosphere" and the Terrestrial Food Chain
Various organisms produce various gasses. Following gravity, these tend to collect into "atmospheres." Some of these gasses are toxic to certain lifeforms. None are vital.
There is a certain material (composed of 144 Blue, 33 Green and 11 Red Strings) which forms from certain combinations of gasses in the presence of significant heat. I'll call this material Vitae. It is necessary to most forms of life.
On Earth, lifeforms use oxygen by close contact, typically through breathing. In Kćeća Ora, lifeforms absorb Vitae by breathing, but cannot use it directly; the molecule is too tightly-bound, and must be broken down. There are various ways to do so.
In Kćeća Ora, there are "organic rocks" of various types, with no counterparts on Earth. The closest would be coral, however the coral we see is merely the dead exoskeletons of tiny, "normal" organisms living within the structures, whereas organic rock in Kćeća Ora is the organism. Only two mechanisms define these rocks as living; absorption of energy from the environment, and reproduction. Both happen automatically.
When a Vitae molecule strikes the surface of an organic rock, it gets stuck in such a way that the momentum of motion is instantly transferred to internal motion, which breaks apart the molecule, allowing the organic rock to use it for fuel to grow. Because organic rock is entirely sedentary and has no other features of life, large amounts of energy can be stored inside of them.
Certain organisms, mostly large, slow-moving, animal-like Allmind Tridimes, can eat these rocks, absorbing their already-broken-down energy, which allows their bodies to produce the molecules and run the mechanisms needed to live and reproduce. These "geovores" are in turn eaten by "carnivores," who obtain the already-broken-down energy in their flesh.
Breathing is redundant in most advanced lifeforms; they get all the energy they need by eating. The reason most advanced lifeforms breathe is because evolution is an additive process, not subtractive. Once breathing evolved to help obtain Vitae, there was no mechanism to "unevolve it." Most breathing lifeforms in Kćeća Ora can hold their breath for as long as it'd take an Earth creature to starve to death.
Certain plants physically break down organic rocks, absorbing their energy and producing a sediment in the process. Whereas on Earth, plants grow in dirt and rarely on bare rock, in Kćeća Ora, the reverse is true.
While there are nonorganic rocks in Kćeća Ora, they are almost always long-dead organic rocks. Truly nonorganic rocks are rare in Kćeća Ora, produced by the pressure and heat of geological processes.
Kćeća Ora has the same basic states of matter as Briah; solid, liquid and gas.
Dimensional Classification
Organisms in Kćeća Ora can be classified by how many dimensions they are capable of perceiving. Those that can only perceive three are called Tridimes. Four are Quadimes. Five are Quindimes.
No organisms in Kćeća Ora perceive only two or only one dimensions. None perceive all six. I misspoke about that last earlier. This is correct.
The "Atmosphere" and the Terrestrial Food Chain
Various organisms produce various gasses. Following gravity, these tend to collect into "atmospheres." Some of these gasses are toxic to certain lifeforms. None are vital.
There is a certain material (composed of 144 Blue, 33 Green and 11 Red Strings) which forms from certain combinations of gasses in the presence of significant heat. I'll call this material Vitae. It is necessary to most forms of life.
On Earth, lifeforms use oxygen by close contact, typically through breathing. In Kćeća Ora, lifeforms absorb Vitae by breathing, but cannot use it directly; the molecule is too tightly-bound, and must be broken down. There are various ways to do so.
In Kćeća Ora, there are "organic rocks" of various types, with no counterparts on Earth. The closest would be coral, however the coral we see is merely the dead exoskeletons of tiny, "normal" organisms living within the structures, whereas organic rock in Kćeća Ora is the organism. Only two mechanisms define these rocks as living; absorption of energy from the environment, and reproduction. Both happen automatically.
When a Vitae molecule strikes the surface of an organic rock, it gets stuck in such a way that the momentum of motion is instantly transferred to internal motion, which breaks apart the molecule, allowing the organic rock to use it for fuel to grow. Because organic rock is entirely sedentary and has no other features of life, large amounts of energy can be stored inside of them.
Certain organisms, mostly large, slow-moving, animal-like Allmind Tridimes, can eat these rocks, absorbing their already-broken-down energy, which allows their bodies to produce the molecules and run the mechanisms needed to live and reproduce. These "geovores" are in turn eaten by "carnivores," who obtain the already-broken-down energy in their flesh.
Breathing is redundant in most advanced lifeforms; they get all the energy they need by eating. The reason most advanced lifeforms breathe is because evolution is an additive process, not subtractive. Once breathing evolved to help obtain Vitae, there was no mechanism to "unevolve it." Most breathing lifeforms in Kćeća Ora can hold their breath for as long as it'd take an Earth creature to starve to death.
Certain plants physically break down organic rocks, absorbing their energy and producing a sediment in the process. Whereas on Earth, plants grow in dirt and rarely on bare rock, in Kćeća Ora, the reverse is true.
While there are nonorganic rocks in Kćeća Ora, they are almost always long-dead organic rocks. Truly nonorganic rocks are rare in Kćeća Ora, produced by the pressure and heat of geological processes.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
What is the internal structure of these organic rocks; how is reproduction achieved?
Also: Do all your life-form's physical bodies exist in all 6 dimensions, or only in the dimensions that they are able to perceive?
Also: Do all your life-form's physical bodies exist in all 6 dimensions, or only in the dimensions that they are able to perceive?
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Am I the only one who is reminded of THAT?
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Probably, as there are no similarities whatsoever.dhokarena56 wrote:Am I the only one who is reminded of THAT?
EDIT: dhokarena is referring to this little gem.
Last edited by cromulant on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
From one's own perspective, then, how would another being's experiencing time in a different direction appear?Observer wrote:In Kćeća Ora, there is no such thing as time. Things appear, change and disappear. This is subjectively experienced as "time," but has no component in physical reality.
Various forms of matter experience change and growth differently. Traveling through Space, you may encounter beings whose subjective experience of time flows in the opposite direction as yours. To say they experience time "backwards" would be incorrect, however. To them, they would experience time normally, and you would experience it backwards. The two of you might encounter a third being, whose perception of time is orthogonal to both of yours. WIth no physical time, the experience is entirely subjective and no experience is more or less correct than any other.
The opposite direction is easy enough to imagine. I can see how, if you spent time with a being that experienced time in the opposite direction of your own, that being would appear to get younger as you got older--and they would perceive you getting younger as they aged. If you tried to communicate with them, they'd probably perceive your signals in reverse order. (What would happen if they saw me drop a glass of milk on the floor and it broke?)
But how would a being experiencing time in an "orthogonal" direction to your own be perceived? I can understand the concept of time moving not just forwards and back, but 'sideways,' in the abstract, but can't intuitively understand it at all.
Is the direction of time experience particular to a species, or to an individual? Can it ever change, or is it fixed for life?
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Hello, Observer, this is all impressive! I have read through all of it and really liked it. Let me see if I've got the time-thing, I'll try to respond to cromulant's question:
With time, on Earth, it would be similar - a being going backwards in time would be as you described; while a being in orthogonal time would only be in contact with us during an instantaneous time-lapse, which is a point in time, then disappearing. "Then disappearing" just means that it's not ever gonna be in contact with our timeline ever, unless he doesn't do a straight line, just like two perpendicular lines don't ever cross again after crossing once.
On Kceca Ora, if I'm not wrong again, time as we understand it does not exist, there's no "dimension in which you travel only in one direction and unwilling". So "time" is just like space. I see you walking to me, and you see me walking to you when we go in opposite directions - that is perceiving "time" "backwards". Orthogonal means that we perceive somebody crossing our path perpendicularly, so we don't see them going neither towards nor away from us in the same direction. If we can perceive the dimension he's traveling in, then we can see him "going away" in that direction; if not, we just see the instantaneous intersection and nothing else. The perception could be spatial-ish.
Observer, a question of my own, I've taken it for granted, but are all dimensions in Kceca Ora "spatial" in the sense that you move on them voluntarily? I can swim in all spatial dimensions, I can fly in them too, I can jump and walk occupying the three of them, but I can't travel to "yesterday" voluntarily. It's precisely this what creates the concept of change, I think. How do dimensions behave for 3D-perceiving beings, 4D and 5D respectively? Can the 5D beings, for example, move freely to what a 3D being would perceive as past; is there a being which can move freely in all of its dimensions?
If I'm not wrong, orthogonal time on Earth would work like orthogonal space on Earth. All dimensions are orthogonal to each other; that means that if I'm a 2-dimensional being and I see somebody going "forward" in a 3rd dimension, then I'm only going to be able to percieve one point of their displacement, the rest existing in two continuations of a dimensional direction not in my sensory perception.cromulant wrote:But how would a being experiencing time in an "orthogonal" direction to your own be perceived? I can understand the concept of time moving not just forwards and back, but 'sideways,' in the abstract, but can't intuitively understand it at all.
With time, on Earth, it would be similar - a being going backwards in time would be as you described; while a being in orthogonal time would only be in contact with us during an instantaneous time-lapse, which is a point in time, then disappearing. "Then disappearing" just means that it's not ever gonna be in contact with our timeline ever, unless he doesn't do a straight line, just like two perpendicular lines don't ever cross again after crossing once.
On Kceca Ora, if I'm not wrong again, time as we understand it does not exist, there's no "dimension in which you travel only in one direction and unwilling". So "time" is just like space. I see you walking to me, and you see me walking to you when we go in opposite directions - that is perceiving "time" "backwards". Orthogonal means that we perceive somebody crossing our path perpendicularly, so we don't see them going neither towards nor away from us in the same direction. If we can perceive the dimension he's traveling in, then we can see him "going away" in that direction; if not, we just see the instantaneous intersection and nothing else. The perception could be spatial-ish.
Observer, a question of my own, I've taken it for granted, but are all dimensions in Kceca Ora "spatial" in the sense that you move on them voluntarily? I can swim in all spatial dimensions, I can fly in them too, I can jump and walk occupying the three of them, but I can't travel to "yesterday" voluntarily. It's precisely this what creates the concept of change, I think. How do dimensions behave for 3D-perceiving beings, 4D and 5D respectively? Can the 5D beings, for example, move freely to what a 3D being would perceive as past; is there a being which can move freely in all of its dimensions?
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
sucaeyl, the organic rocks are the same throughout; there's no particular "inside." Reproduction occurs much like crystals grow; microscopic dendrites grow across the surface of the rock, adding to the total mass. Vitae is used as energy for this process, and local gasses as building material. You could think of the rock itself as a precipitate of local gasses. This is a slow process.
Yes, all forms of life exist in all six spatial dimensions. In Briah, time is a physical dimension, equal to the three spatial dimensions. Numerous experiments over recent decades confirm this. Yet, you cannot see or interact with your past or future selves, even though they are as physical as the computer screen you're looking at right now. String Theorists believe there may be an additional eighteen physical dimensions of space. Right now, you may be moving through a fifth, sixth, etc. dimension. You don't notice it because of the way humans evolved, presumably. The same applies to the creatures of Kćeća Ora.
~
cromulant, I can best explain it like this. Imagine a being that experiences time in the opposite direction as yourself. The following events occur in order to you...
1) You meet the being for the first time.
2) You meet the being for the second time.
3) You meet the being for a final time.
At event 1, you would have no knowledge of event 2 or 3, because for you, they have yet to happen. However, at event 1, the being would remember event 2 and 3. What you would experience as meeting the being for the first time would be a final meeting from its perspective. At event 2, it would remember event 3, but not event 1.
Now imagine another creature whose experience of time is perpendicular ("orthagonal") to the both of yours. Imagine this creature watches all three of your meetings. It might perceive event 2 as happening first, event 1 second and event 3 third. So at event 1, it remembers event 2 but not event 3. At event 2 it wouldn't remember either 1 or 3.
It is memory and the order of events that are principally perceived differently.
A glass of milk falling onto a floor is not a subjective experience, but an objective event. The being and the creature would visually see the same thing you do. However, if it occured, say, at event point 2 on our scale above, the being would already know it was going to happen at event 1. You and the creautre would not. However, at event 3, the being would not remember the glass falling.
The same applies to speech. The being and creature would experience the same phenomena as you, but because their subjective experience of time is different, one might already know it was going to happen before you do, or forget it after it happened from your perspective.
Temporal experiences are species-based. It cannot change, to the best of my knowledge. There may be a species which changes temporal experiences at a certain stage of its life cycle.
Temporal experiences seem clustered. In a given area of Space, it's likely that 99% of organisms have the same subjective experience of time. Such an area of Space is typically contiguous with similar areas; most organisms in Kćeća Ora never meet a creature with a different perception of time than their own.
Mindless lifeforms have no experience of time.
~
Eandil, thank you very much for the compliment. I'm glad you like Kćeća Ora.
All six of the dimensions in Kćeća Ora are spatial; movement is voluntary; none of the dimensions represent the past or future. A Quadime couldn't appear in a Tridime's past. A Quadime could, however, disappear and reappear somewhere else to a Tridime, by moving through the fourth dimension. Flatland, by Edwin Abbott Abbott, describes the interactions of fictional creatures with varying physical dimensions, let alone perceptions thereof, accessibly.
All beings exist in all six dimensions, but can typically only move in those they can perceive. Earlier I said a creature can move through overlapped Space, and appear at a remote location; an island from an underground cooridor. This is due to the creature's limited ability to perceive dimensions. When a creature experiences overlapping Space, in reality, they're moving through a dimension higher than they can perceive. Their brains interpret the phenomena as best they can; as being in one place, then suddenly another.
Yes, all forms of life exist in all six spatial dimensions. In Briah, time is a physical dimension, equal to the three spatial dimensions. Numerous experiments over recent decades confirm this. Yet, you cannot see or interact with your past or future selves, even though they are as physical as the computer screen you're looking at right now. String Theorists believe there may be an additional eighteen physical dimensions of space. Right now, you may be moving through a fifth, sixth, etc. dimension. You don't notice it because of the way humans evolved, presumably. The same applies to the creatures of Kćeća Ora.
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cromulant, I can best explain it like this. Imagine a being that experiences time in the opposite direction as yourself. The following events occur in order to you...
1) You meet the being for the first time.
2) You meet the being for the second time.
3) You meet the being for a final time.
At event 1, you would have no knowledge of event 2 or 3, because for you, they have yet to happen. However, at event 1, the being would remember event 2 and 3. What you would experience as meeting the being for the first time would be a final meeting from its perspective. At event 2, it would remember event 3, but not event 1.
Now imagine another creature whose experience of time is perpendicular ("orthagonal") to the both of yours. Imagine this creature watches all three of your meetings. It might perceive event 2 as happening first, event 1 second and event 3 third. So at event 1, it remembers event 2 but not event 3. At event 2 it wouldn't remember either 1 or 3.
It is memory and the order of events that are principally perceived differently.
A glass of milk falling onto a floor is not a subjective experience, but an objective event. The being and the creature would visually see the same thing you do. However, if it occured, say, at event point 2 on our scale above, the being would already know it was going to happen at event 1. You and the creautre would not. However, at event 3, the being would not remember the glass falling.
The same applies to speech. The being and creature would experience the same phenomena as you, but because their subjective experience of time is different, one might already know it was going to happen before you do, or forget it after it happened from your perspective.
Temporal experiences are species-based. It cannot change, to the best of my knowledge. There may be a species which changes temporal experiences at a certain stage of its life cycle.
Temporal experiences seem clustered. In a given area of Space, it's likely that 99% of organisms have the same subjective experience of time. Such an area of Space is typically contiguous with similar areas; most organisms in Kćeća Ora never meet a creature with a different perception of time than their own.
Mindless lifeforms have no experience of time.
~
Eandil, thank you very much for the compliment. I'm glad you like Kćeća Ora.
All six of the dimensions in Kćeća Ora are spatial; movement is voluntary; none of the dimensions represent the past or future. A Quadime couldn't appear in a Tridime's past. A Quadime could, however, disappear and reappear somewhere else to a Tridime, by moving through the fourth dimension. Flatland, by Edwin Abbott Abbott, describes the interactions of fictional creatures with varying physical dimensions, let alone perceptions thereof, accessibly.
All beings exist in all six dimensions, but can typically only move in those they can perceive. Earlier I said a creature can move through overlapped Space, and appear at a remote location; an island from an underground cooridor. This is due to the creature's limited ability to perceive dimensions. When a creature experiences overlapping Space, in reality, they're moving through a dimension higher than they can perceive. Their brains interpret the phenomena as best they can; as being in one place, then suddenly another.
Re: Kćeća Ora: A Conworld from the Beginning
Fire in Kćeća Ora
There is no oxygen in Kćeća Ora. Thus, there can be no flame. There is an analogue.
Heat works the same in Kćeća Ora as Briah; it's a measurement of the motion of molecules or atoms. When molecules of certain configurations become very hot in Kćeća Ora, they breach the Fire Field, causing Fire Strings to appear.
Fire in Briah appears jagged and moves erratically, making whipping or licking motions. Fire in Kćeća Ora, which to differentiate we'll say appears blue-white in color, spreads evenly in all directions, forming a glowing sheath around whatever is enflamed, and smoothly pulsates.
Fire Strings carry heat and can catch things on fire just as in Briah. Fire Strings also dispel Dark Strings and Clear Strings, and thus provide "light" and can be used to initiate chemical reactions as in Briah, too.
An individual Fire String annihilates quickly, but as long as the object it spawned from remains hot, more Strings will follow.
There is no oxygen in Kćeća Ora. Thus, there can be no flame. There is an analogue.
Heat works the same in Kćeća Ora as Briah; it's a measurement of the motion of molecules or atoms. When molecules of certain configurations become very hot in Kćeća Ora, they breach the Fire Field, causing Fire Strings to appear.
Fire in Briah appears jagged and moves erratically, making whipping or licking motions. Fire in Kćeća Ora, which to differentiate we'll say appears blue-white in color, spreads evenly in all directions, forming a glowing sheath around whatever is enflamed, and smoothly pulsates.
Fire Strings carry heat and can catch things on fire just as in Briah. Fire Strings also dispel Dark Strings and Clear Strings, and thus provide "light" and can be used to initiate chemical reactions as in Briah, too.
An individual Fire String annihilates quickly, but as long as the object it spawned from remains hot, more Strings will follow.