The North Caucasic Thread
The North Caucasic Thread
Not to imply that take seriously the claim that the East and West Caucasian families are related, but they ought to be considered together, side-by-side due to their enduring proximity.
Very little reliable historical and comparative work seems to be available (least of all in English), but hopefully some of this may be brought forth by our collective efforts. What I have to provide at the moment are a few grammars, and a larger number of individual papers. I think the main focus of this thread is to provide knowledge about languages in these families, and to consider historical relations and language contact outside those which are recent and well-established (viz. with Russian, and Turkic languages).
The List of Documents
I would like to call special attention to a few documents in particular:
Ingush Grammar (Nichols)
A Grammar of Khwarshi (Khalilova)
Tsova-Tush / Batsbi (Holisky)
Kabardian Grammar (Masatovic) & Kabardian Grammar (Colarusso)
These two are superb overviews of both families:
The East Caucasian Language Family (van den Berg)
North West Caucasian (Hewitt)
I think I have a more modern grammar of Batsbi/Tsova-Tush somewhere. I used to have access to a paper copy of a grammar of Hunzib (van den Berg), but never was able to digitize it. Same with Tsakhur. If anyone has access to these, or the multi-volume set the Indigenous Languages of the Caucasus especially as an e-book (assuming such a thing ever existed), it would be fantastic if you could provide that.
Very little reliable historical and comparative work seems to be available (least of all in English), but hopefully some of this may be brought forth by our collective efforts. What I have to provide at the moment are a few grammars, and a larger number of individual papers. I think the main focus of this thread is to provide knowledge about languages in these families, and to consider historical relations and language contact outside those which are recent and well-established (viz. with Russian, and Turkic languages).
The List of Documents
I would like to call special attention to a few documents in particular:
Ingush Grammar (Nichols)
A Grammar of Khwarshi (Khalilova)
Tsova-Tush / Batsbi (Holisky)
Kabardian Grammar (Masatovic) & Kabardian Grammar (Colarusso)
These two are superb overviews of both families:
The East Caucasian Language Family (van den Berg)
North West Caucasian (Hewitt)
I think I have a more modern grammar of Batsbi/Tsova-Tush somewhere. I used to have access to a paper copy of a grammar of Hunzib (van den Berg), but never was able to digitize it. Same with Tsakhur. If anyone has access to these, or the multi-volume set the Indigenous Languages of the Caucasus especially as an e-book (assuming such a thing ever existed), it would be fantastic if you could provide that.
Last edited by Morrígan on Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
The collection of grammars that was being passed around on #isharia a few years back (reminds me: is there an updated version?) also included grammars of abkhaz, adyghe, aghul, bezhta and godoberi. I'm sure someone more technologically competant than me will be able to upload them somewhere.
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
An updated version may or may not be being worked on by certain dedicated individual(s).
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
So long as certain dedicated individuals have focused the update on austronesian and amazonian languages, it's all good.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: The North Caucasic Thread
Nikolayev & Starostin, A North Caucasian Etymological Dictionary (aka NCED): Preface
(The attempted reconstruction)
(The attempted reconstruction)
Basilius
Re: The North Caucasic Thread
This paper's complete lack of any comparative grammar was one of the things that convinced me that I was interested in NEC/NWC historical linguistics.
On that subject though, I don't think I've really seen any literature directly addressing anything like the properties of Proto-Vainakh, or Proto-Tsezic. I find it hard to believe that this sort of thing was never published (even in English).
Re: The North Caucasic Thread
(Crossposting from the Correspondence Library.)
I'm gonna suggest that the 3rd series may have been the plain series actually: retained in Tapanta, fronted a la *ts → *tθ → *θ → f elsewhere (and, outside of Bzyp, accompanied with the plain palatalized series then also fronting). Postulating rounding that's unattested anywhere sounds like a poor idea.
Wikipedia suggests that these correspond to /ts/ etc. in Abaza as well, though additionally mentions a stable alveolar affricate series too. I suppose this could be accounted for with a laminal/apical distinction.
Typological sanity check: there are supposed to have been palatalized, labialized, labiopalatalized, and postalveolar palatalized affricates in proto-Abxaz, but no plain alveolar affricates?Nortaneous wrote:Here it is in IPA:Code: Select all
Comm AbzP AbzT Bzyp Ahch Khal Tswy Ashk Tapa dʑ dz dz dʑ dz dz dz dz dz tɕ ts ts tɕ ts ts ts ts ts tɕʼ tsʼ tsʼ tɕʼ tsʼ tsʼ tsʼ tsʼ tsʼ dʑʷ dʑʷ dʑʷ dʑʷ dʑʷ dʑʷ dʑʷ dʑʷ dʑ(ʷ)/dʒʷ tɕʷ tɕʷ tɕʷ tɕʷ tɕʷ tɕʷ tɕʷ tɕʷ tɕ(ʷ)/tʃʷ tɕʷʼ tɕʷʼ tɕʷʼ tɕʷʼ tɕʷʼ tɕʷʼ tɕʷʼ tɕʷʼ tɕ(ʷ)ʼ/tʃʷʼ dʒʷ v v v v v v v dz tʃʷ f f f f f f f ts tʃʷʼ fʼ pʼ pʼ pʼ fʼ fʼ fʼ tsʼ
I'm gonna suggest that the 3rd series may have been the plain series actually: retained in Tapanta, fronted a la *ts → *tθ → *θ → f elsewhere (and, outside of Bzyp, accompanied with the plain palatalized series then also fronting). Postulating rounding that's unattested anywhere sounds like a poor idea.
Wikipedia suggests that these correspond to /ts/ etc. in Abaza as well, though additionally mentions a stable alveolar affricate series too. I suppose this could be accounted for with a laminal/apical distinction.
[ˌʔaɪsəˈpʰɻ̊ʷoʊpɪɫ ˈʔæɫkəɦɔɫ]
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
The plain alveolar affricates were preserved unchanged, I think.
As for the shift to labials: you don't need any intermediate steps. Abkhaz 'rounding' has four different mechanisms that apply to different consonants, and one of them is labiodentalization. I'm guessing they were labiodentalized in the protolang.
As for the shift to labials: you don't need any intermediate steps. Abkhaz 'rounding' has four different mechanisms that apply to different consonants, and one of them is labiodentalization. I'm guessing they were labiodentalized in the protolang.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: The North Caucasic Thread
I haven't really had time to type anything up or go over the data in great detail, but I'll just propose a question, and hopefully can look into things this weekend.
NEC gender/class markers kind of look like NWC pronouns/subject markers. Coincidence?
NEC gender/class markers kind of look like NWC pronouns/subject markers. Coincidence?
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
That collection of grammars doesn't have this Abkhaz grammar by George Hewitt. In addition there's this paper on long-distance agreement and topic in Tsez.
Although now I must ask - when such an update is completed, it will surely be posted here on the ZBB, won't it?
Although now I must ask - when such an update is completed, it will surely be posted here on the ZBB, won't it?
I did have a bizarrely similar (to the original poster's) accident about four years ago, in which I slipped over a cookie and somehow twisted my ankle so far that it broke
Aeetlrcreejl > Kicgan Vekei > me /ne.ses.tso.sats/What kind of cookie?
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
The website says the file upload was interrupted :'(Nesescosac wrote:In addition there's this paper on long-distance agreement and topic in Tsez.
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
Hmm, that's weird. Try this, then.Nessari wrote:The website says the file upload was interrupted :'(
I did have a bizarrely similar (to the original poster's) accident about four years ago, in which I slipped over a cookie and somehow twisted my ankle so far that it broke
Aeetlrcreejl > Kicgan Vekei > me /ne.ses.tso.sats/What kind of cookie?
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Re: The North Caucasic Thread
Yay it worked! :3
Re: The North Caucasic Thread
I found the newer grammar for Batsbi that I was looking for.